Talk:Big sister

Rename

This page was created to talk about the renaming and moving of the "Uchi" article.

Hey everyone, it's me, Sundae2Cat! I really think that this article should be renamed. Uchi is just a random Japanese word that roughly translates to "Big sister'. For starters, we could at LEAST think up of a English word for this personality. Uchi villagers are go-getters, and they will try to assist the player, but are also tomboyish and carefree. I was thinking that diligent would be a perfect name, because Uchi villagers are tough, efficient and adventurous and once befriended, committed to player, and the town's well being. If you disagree or have better ideas for the name of this personality, feel free to contribute to this article. - unsigned comment from Sundae2Cat (talk • contribs)

Hi, and welcome to Nookipedia! Unfortunately, we had this discussion before and rejected a move because of a lack of evidence. I think Uchi is the best name that we've got, personally. Drago (talk) 11:20, October 7, 2018 (EDT)

Renaming Uchi to Sisterly

I also think it should be renamed to Sisterly.

1. It's not given an English word like the other personality types.
2. In fact, even the given Japanese name is incorrect, with the correct term likely being some variation of 'ane' (an older sister). The term uchi originated from someone on the Animal Crossing Wikia who is known for being a massive chuuni.
3. With the release of New Horizons, more new fans are getting into the series than ever, this is the opportune time to rename as they are being exposed to the personality names for the first time. The wikia has renamed it to Sisterly, and people have already begun to use sisterly.

ShadeTempest 18:00, March 25, 2020 (EDT)

I'm not at all opposed to renaming, but it's case of what to rename it to. We've been down this road before. Many of the personalities were given very different names to the Japanese names, which changes the meaning substantially (e.g. Absent-minded > Lazy, and don't get me started on Jock). I've seen "Sisterly" mentioned before, but I've also seen "Tomboy" thrown around as well. The latter fits the interpretation Nintendo Treehouse has gone for, going by their general dialogue. Perhaps we could contact Nintendo and just ask them what name is appropriate? At least then we'd have a firm basis for renaming. Otherwise I think the discussion needs to focus on whichever name we can all agree upon, if that can even happen. -- Dorsal Axe (talk) 19:55, March 25, 2020 (EDT)

Adding in for context, AC Wikia recently changed Uchi to Sisterly. If we also want to move away from Uchi, I think the only reasonable option is to go with Sisterly, because otherwise we end up with three standards (Uchi vs. Sisterly vs. X) and that doesn't really help the situation. ~SuperHamster Talk 04:42, March 26, 2020 (EDT)

The rationale behind this decision was that fundamentally 'uchi' is not an English word, it has no definition in English, and therefore to the vast majority of visitors to the wikis who have no knowledge of Japanese, the word 'uchi' is simply not useful or descriptive. Translating it to a close English word makes the name clearer, easier to understand, and easier to remember for new players, and honestly is a no-brainer. Why this wasn't done years ago is entirely beyond me - dragonfree97 (talk) 12:57, March 26, 2020 (EDT)

After thinking about it some, I  Support the move. I'm hesitant to change a norm that has been used for years, but the underlying reasoning makes a lot of sense. Lots of new players have joined AC with NH, and they're still getting antiquated to everything - so now's as good a time to move it as ever. I'd also support having a transition period, where any instance of "uchi" is changed to "sisterly (uchi)" so readers can make the connection - and after say a month, completely remove Uchi across the wiki. ~SuperHamster Talk 16:38, March 31, 2020 (EDT)

I agree with renaming, but I feel "sisterly" is too vague. "Sisterly" just means to treat someone like a sister would, so it really could be anything; it's very abstract and doesn't say much about the personality without already knowing how the characters act. I also think its quite a few too many syllables. All of the other personality types have one or two syllables, so "sisterly" sticks out too much in my opinion. If I were to give a recommendation, it would be "tomboy." But, if we renamed to "sisterly," it would be better than not renaming at all. SuperHamster's point about not having three alternatives is also understandable, but I wanted to put this opinion out there. --Shrunkfunkshuffle (talk) 12:15, April 2, 2020 (EDT)

I think that the fact that "sisterly" is vague is what makes it a perfect name. Older sisters can be a lot of things, like either the caring type, or the mischievous type, and both of these have been used to describe these villagers. Plus, unlike sisterly derived from aneki, tomboy has no basis, it's a subjective impression one can have, and the villagers may not come off of as "tomboyish" to one person or another, especially in the progressive age where concepts like something being too masculine or feminine are becoming dated. ShadeTempest 17:40, April 5, 2020 (EDT)

 Support given that Uchi is an unofficial name and not the correct Japanese word. 50μs (talk) 16:46, March 31, 2020 (EDT)

Still waiting for a response from Nintendo, but if they fail to provide an answer I would support a move to Sis or Big Sis. This would be a more accurate interpretation of "Aneki", which is the only official name we've got really. -- Dorsal Axe (talk) 11:03, April 3, 2020 (EDT)

And risk creating another competing standard? - dragonfree97 (talk) 17:28, April 3, 2020 (EDT)

According to Google Translate, "Uchi" means "home", which obviously sounds like it'd be a nonsense description for villagers. Home villagers? Another "my hovercraft is full of eels" situation. Also, the TV Tropes character page for Animal Crossing has changed all instances of "Uchi" to "Sisterly", though that might be the doing of a Fandom user, considering the Fandom wiki's adoption of "Sisterly". AgentParadox (talk) 17:37, April 3, 2020 (EDT)

'Uchi' is the pronoun the villagers use to refer to themselves in the Japanese version of New Leaf (and presumably New Horizons). The use of the name 'uchi' for the personality type predates the Western release of New Leaf - dragonfree97 (talk) 17:41, April 3, 2020 (EDT)

I want to mention that uchi referring to their pronoun is probably a coincidence and wasn't the intention when that chuuni first brought the term over to the western fanbase. Somewhere along the way due to the coincidence, misinformation must've spread that the Japanese fanbase uses the pronouns as the personality names when they didn't (example), and still don't (example), though it is acknowledged that each personality type has their own pronoun. ShadeTempest 17:40, April 5, 2020 (EDT)

Here is an example of a Japanese AC website that partners pronouns with personality, in this instance アネキ. I think Sisterly is a fine translation, but also I don't think there's any issue with using Uchi. It's not the first time in video games that English-speakers use a Japanese term for a game mechanic that doesn't have a simple English translation. I disagree with the sentiment that Uchi is not a correct Japanese term, I think JP speakers would immediately recognize ウチ系 "Uchi Group" as the group containing villagers like Cherry. --Fddcsjxk (talk) 00:54, April 7, 2020 (EDT)

The link I provided also noted which personalities had which pronouns. However, what I mean is that it is not necessarily the primary method used to name animal personalities. Just as we could have identified Static by calling him the "krzzt" squirrel because of his very recognizable catchphrase, it isn't necessarily the name most people would use. What I am saying that because Uchi is recognizable as the unique pronoun and could be used to identify the personality, that led to the misinformation that uchi was used as a personality name in the JP fanbase. ShadeTempest 01:07, April 8, 2020 (EDT)

There is little point to choosing Sis or Big Sis over Sisterly. Sisterly would be a better translation than simply sis or sister. The villager is not your sister. While it is more common in eastern culture to use familial terms to address strangers, such as calling someone uncle, the same is less appropriate in the English language. I also want to mention that in Japanese, aneki can be used to refer to someone that is not the speaker's sister. For the practical points, it would create another standard, and also be terrible for searching because the terms are more generic and short than sisterly. ShadeTempest 17:40, April 5, 2020 (EDT)

Aneki is slang-ish term (fun fact it's often used in gangs), and actually there's a tweet from New Leaf days where Isabelle mentions how everyone starts calling Deirdre "Sis"/"Aneki" because she looks out for everyone. It's not an unheard of concept in English (kinda like using "bro" in a casual context when it also means literally "brother"). It's the only personality to basically be titled rather than a word describing its nature, which IMO is nuance worth taking into account. -- Dorsal Axe (talk) 04:03, April 7, 2020 (EDT)

You are thinking of Aniki, not Aneki. Aneki does not contain the same gang connotation that Aniki does ([1]). The gang-like term for females would be Anego. Compare various kotobank and wiktionary entries which don't mention the gang-like connotation for Aneki, but does for the others: [2] [3] [4] wiktionary:姉貴 wiktionary:兄貴. Again, the nuance of familial titles applying to strangers in a casual manner would be lost in translation to in the English language, and sisterly still gets the "looking out for everyone" point across as much as sis. ShadeTempest 01:07, April 8, 2020 (EDT)

 Support for "sisterly"; I'm starting to see it used more often on other Animal Crossing forums and wikis. I've never liked "uchi" since it's just their personal pronoun, and "sisterly" works since it matches their personality type (rough-and-tumble, but caring and protective of the player). I wouldn't mind "tomboy" either, but consistency is better for this case, I think. StrawberryChan (talk) 17:52, April 5, 2020 (EDT)